Pre-FX Send design flaw: VSTi (synth) treated as FX

Why are VSTi(s) treated as FX? Example: Track 1: VSTi (ReaSynth) -> VST FX (ReaEQ) -> Track 1 sends (Pre-FX!) to Track 2 => silence on Track 2 :( I expect the output from the VSTi (ReaSynth) there!

You know really, don't you. All VST(i)s are FX in Reaper's terminalogy So pre-Fx is before the VSTi, so the MIDI is sent. But I agree, it's daft. [Remember Tracktion calls them all "Filters"]

you can choose where in the plugin chain you want the send to originate from. I would not consider this a bug, but perhaps poor design that it's not more obvious how to do this

You can do this by copying the channels within the track and sending the copied channels to the other track. I've attached an example REAPER project to illustrate, first place the .txt file into the effects folder with the other js plugins (me and a couple other people have made these js plugins in the past for this type of situation, I do not see them in the reaper install though)

But that's a timewasting workaround. It has to be possible with 2 clicks: -> open the routing window -> select pre-fx => Reaper should still route the VSTi output to the send Basic things.

that would be fine with me too, anything to make the program more accessible. I'm not arguing that design changes can be made to enhance the app. I just wanted to point out the flexibility that is here in case you really needed it right now. sorry you feel it was "timewasting" just trying to help you may still want the ability to process some "FX" before the vsti, or some after it even.

It's not that basic, I think. I sometimes use midi FX before the vsti, how should Reaper handle this? If I now make a pre FX midi send, I would want to have the midi data unaltered by the midi FX (perhaps to make another vsti on another track play the unaltered data). With your paradigm, it would be altered, because pre FX send is taken from after the vsti (thus after the midi FX). I could imagine a freely definable node where the send signal is taken. Would help more.

Yep, that's kinda what I meant. How is it done in nubase?

What about those plug-ins that are an instrument and an effect at the same time? How would/are they treated?

I'm going to guess that there is some code inside Surge that somewhow (reads its filename?) and decides whether to announce that it's a VSTi or a VST. But with a Send point after every component in the FX chain it would not matter.